The questions I asked

My questions I asked at the meeting I went to the other night were about love.

First I asked: Do our souls, as well as our individuality, also long for love?

My second question concerned the following:

I heard that there was a man who had been found guilty of war crimes and had not been found all these years and so was free. We’re talking about 60 years or so.

Recently, this now old man had been discovered, arrested, and imprisoned. It was terrible, whatever he had done, yet now he was in his late 80’s and fatally ill, as I remember. Could he not have been left at home to die with, perhaps, people around him who loved him? Not in a prison where no one would love him?

In his days of infamy, he had lacked compassion, yet it would seem to me that we could have compassion.

And how do we know now who he had become? It could be that he was a different man altogether now. And is it a question about him at all? Isn’t it a question about us?

If this arrested man had not been ill, would I feel the same? I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe not. If this man had still been young, I wouldn’t have thought about it too much. Yet, at the same time, I question the whole idea of punishment and imprisonment.

Did this man who had been heartless — was this his role to play? At the time, could he have done otherwise? I mean, was he bound to follow his script? Just as Oskar Schindler in Schindler’s List had a quite different role to play. I wonder.

What are your thoughts and feelings about these matters?

Posted by Gloria on January 22nd, 2010 under these topics
Movies, Personal Development, Forgiveness, Godwriting Journal

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9 Replies

Reply from Jochen on January 22, 2010

“And is it a question about him at all?”

That’s the important question, I believe. And I believe it never was or is about them. It nerver was about whether anyone could have done otherwise, it’s not about “real guilt”, ever. It’s that we are not living as sisters and brother and secretly know that all mayhem is coming from there and is, therefore, everyone’s whether formally guilty or not. I don’t think there are scripts. Maybe we have all played all roles, and now we know enough to end it and do something else, like “If no one protected his heart from the eyes of the world, what a gentle place the world would be.” (HL #1629)

Reply from paula on January 23, 2010

I think it’s between him and his God. It’s not up to us to judge.. I’m just wondering how anyone can live with such a burden! I mean, I feel guilty even when I pick a flower, and I stopped killing spiders, because I felt too bad about it. All I can say is that I don’t know, so I leave it to God.

Reply from Jack van Raders on January 23, 2010

three times I tried and pressed the wrong button so what ever I was saying was not importand Love Jack

Reply from Chuck Gebhardt on January 23, 2010

I think the issue, here, is about what I might call “continuance.” When we act out of a lack of compassion, or even out of conscious intention to harm, we create some injury and hurt in the world. Even though it is temporary, and therefore an illusion, we can all attest to the truth that it does hurt and not what we want. I think we can have the intention to be a little bit like a vacuum cleaner, sucking up and disposing of some of this pain that has been created by our ignorance, rather than allowing it to continue by way of our retaliation. Isn’t this what Jesus was asking of us when he suggested we turn our other cheek, put down the stones we hold in our hands and stop judging?

The hard part, it seems to me, is that not reacting in retaliation to the injustices and outright meanness is not what is currently taught by accepted world thought. Forgiveness goes against popular “wisdom.” We are being asked, in Heavenletters, to rise to a new level of awareness. Certainly our individual rising will not disband our armies nor put our judges and jails out of business, at least in the near future, but I see this as where we are truly being directed to go, and where we as a species must eventually go.

Yes, let the old man go, but does it really matter at all that he is old or that he is sick? To true forgiveness, these details are irrelevant. He may have done “wrong,” but punishing him will not change that. Forgiveness will at least heal us all a little bit, and help us all move a little more towards where we want to be.

Reply from Patrizia on January 23, 2010

The killer and the victim are the same. Not for all persons. Blessing, blessing, blessing. The truth is not so easy to find. Perhaps there isn’t truth, to find. It’s all perfect just the way it is. By now.

Reply from Pam (fortheloveofGodde) on January 23, 2010

Well, now, what a subject. Asking for compassion for an old ill man is far different than Chuck asking for forgiveness of his acts. Paula wonders how he lived with his acts, and Patrizia reminds us that we are all one–the killer and victim are the same.

While we can say it is all an illusion, and I agree that it its, we are still in the illusion and as such have all those pesky ego emotions to deal with. Yes, we are certainly all one and believing so, we must confront that any ONE of us could have committed the same acts this man did, given the right set of circumstances.

As for forgiveness, did he ask for forgiveness? Is he sorry for what he did? So what is there to forgive except for the part in you/me that reacts to his bad acts? Or to the part in you/me that could have committed those bad acts? Yes, it seems to me that that is all we can do–forgive our selves. Ia that what you meant, Chuck?

And as all One, this means we also have the capacity to have Paula’s heart, the one that cannot kill a spider because of how bad it makes her feel. Chuck’s intellect and clear voice of reason–his way of seeing why we should not REact, but to look for the spiritual way and Patrizia’s clear view that we are all one and that all is in Divine Order.

HUGS–Pam (because by hugging you, I’m hugging me too)

Reply from Jack van Raders on January 24, 2010

Let it go. What ever happens to the sick old man is none of our business it is his live and his responsibility and the people that think differend I hope that they will come soon to the realisation that all is as it is supposed to be. Have I expressed myself correctly? How about this then Love is the only reliable energy there is and no one can interfere with that energy Love you All Jack

Reply from Chuck Gebhardt on January 24, 2010

Pam, your question about what I meant by what I was saying and the comments of others, above, are like a multiple choice question. I would have to pick the bottom answer: “d. all of the above.”

It seems to me that forgiveness can be viewed at a number of levels simultaneously. We can look at it from the point of view of all the accepted fears and judgments that are implicitly built into the institutions of modern society, as I implied in my comment. The healing, here, and the forgiveness needed seem immense. I have faith that we are making progress.

You are right, Pam, what I was most directly addressing was our individual day to day actions and attitudes. I think it is a deeper level to realize that all judgment is self-judgment, and each constitutes an unwitting attack on our own feeling of self-worth. I see this as our true point of power, we control directly what we think about and whether we blindly follow old habits or subject them to examination.

By implication, though, I was also addressing what I see as an even deeper level, the level most of the comments, above, are addressing. Pitta’s comment is most direct: “The killer and the victim are the same.” I think the realization of this level gets us to the point of having no need to forgive anything since there is no “wrong” or offense to judge or be forgiven for. This is the perspective of a recent Heavenletter: “A Play Played by Players.” We step back and out of the illusion of our temporary play to see that all is going according to Divine plan and intent. We play all the roles.

I think this deepest level is very comforting, yet it does not negate our mission: to bring the awareness of Heaven more fully to earth. And this brings us back to the more superficial levels, again, with the invitation to continue to engage the realities of the illusion, by intending to manifest God’s love through our actions.

Reply from emilia on January 25, 2010

That’s how the maze works, it let you think that there is always something to solve, a direction to take, a choise to make.
While there is no exit, on the ground plane.

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