Points of View

One of the greatest things about the forum and this blog are the comments that Heavenreaders post. I’ve told you that before.

Your comments inspire. They make me smile, laugh, and/or think.

On the forum, by its nature, there isn’t always agreement. And it’s beautiful to see how caring and disagreement are okay side by side and do not become arguments at all.They are really discussions and do not fall into emotional arguments as disagreements often do become in “real” life.

It’s really true that different points of view are welcome on the forum. Even when someone thinks the opposite of someone else, it’s perfectly fine. It’s really like we would fight to the end for a person to say what he thinks and feels, even if it’s the opposite of our opinion. We really do honor each other’s points of view.

Recently there was a comment on the forum that I can’t seem to let go of.  I debate it back and forth in my mind. I kinda realize that all arguments must be within ourselves.

Someone innocently posted that he would like to see the day when Heavenletters offer us more advanced Heavenletters.

This didn’t ring true to me. God doesn’t hold back. He doesn’t keep His knowledge from us. Of course, there is much we don’t understand, and yet God says we don’t have to understand, and there is much we can’t.

I ask myself why does this particular comment that opens the possibility of more advanced Heavenletters bother me? I am not looking for anyone to agree with me. I am trying to figure it out.

I had sort of hoped this morning that God would give us a Heavenletter that addressed this, but He didn’t. This morning (the Heavenletter written down this morning which won’t come out for a while) was about loneliness.

So why does this idea still run around inside my mind? What is there about it? There has to be more to this than my not agreeing with it.

I wonder if I see the word advanced as judgment, like we have beginner Heavenletters now,  and some day we’ll have more advanced Heavenletters as if they are for our intellect. Or as if some of us are more advanced than others. Who is to say? Maybe I feel I would be left back.

I know that as our consciousness grows, so do the Heavenletters. What I mean is that we can reread Heavenletters written ten years ago, and find them more wonderful than we knew back then. It is the very simplicity of them that is wonderful.  Possibly, we see something in an early Heavenletter that wasn’t quite there for us the first time.  The Heavenletter hasn’t changed. The words are the same. Maybe we are more advanced.

I imagine that in one Heavenletter, God has told us everything. Of course, He comes at it from different angles.

I remember that, years ago, God was saying often: “I am here. I am here. I am here.” I thought that was too simple. I thought it was a little Dick and Jane, and I felt a tinge of embarrassment actually at the simplicity. Three words, each of one syllable. “I am here.” Maybe I wanted something more impressive back then.

As I grew in understanding, those three words meant more for me. In fact,  if I had to choose the whole theme of all Heavenletters,  I might choose those three words as the main theme. Advanced? No, simple, basic, real, true, and meaningful!

God says over and over again that we need more heart, not mind.  Do I think that advanced means more intellect?

I still seem to think that God has given us the whole story, and that He gave it to us long ago. And now we, like children, love to read the same story over and over again. Of course, it has been said that we are to be like the little children.

This is what I feel. What do you feel?

Posted by Gloria on October 10th, 2008 under these topics
Personal Development, Heaven Letters, Godwriting Journal

Post Discussion

29 Replies

Reply from Jack van Raders on October 10, 2008

Yes Dear Gloria I agree whole heartedly.

More Advanced? I feel life is simple, Love is simple, care is simple and all is beautiful. I feel God is saying things simply because all is simple,it is people who want it more complicated. I meet with some beautiful people from the Theosophical Society here. They talk about God as the unspeakable and speak about it for two hours. why so difficult I do understand the word unspeakable. I made a lot of friends in the society But I cannot understand Madam Blavatsky mainly possible I do not want to as I am happy in my believe and life. If others want to go deeper and rack there brains about the unspeakable, Fine let them be happy with that I am happy with a loving GOD although as yet I am unable to understand all but God has told us many a time that all will be revealed so I await the time that GOD think I am ready for the revelation. In the meantime I send all much Love Light and have Fun. Jack

Reply from Margaret W on October 10, 2008

Gloria, what you say here–”we can reread Heavenletters written ten years ago, and find them more wonderful than we knew back then”–is certainly my experience!

I’ve been re-reading letters in the published Heavenletters book recently. And you know I have read over these letters many times, back when we were proofreading them–well, I am dazzled by the love and the beauty God shares with us through them. They stir new waves of gratitude in my heart.

Jack, I give God thanks for you, too–the love and joy of God in your open heart reaches me here half-way around the world every time you write in.

Blessings and joy to all!

Reply from Pam (fortheloveofGodde) on October 10, 2008

When I was learning how to write instructions and “how-to’s”, the main rule was “The more technical the subject, the simpler the writing should be.” No compound sentences, no big words. The goal was to write at a 7th-9th grade level.

I’ve found this to be true in matters of the spirit as well. The TRUTH is told in simple language. Me, I sometimes have trouble keeping it simple. Jack never does.

Reply from paula on October 10, 2008

There was a time when I also thought that Heavenletters were too simplistic, only nice words without any profound teachings. But the more I translate them, the more I marvel at the simplicity with which God expresses the same complicated teachings I read elsewhere. It’s just that He gives them in small pills and without great pomp. And what’s more important, it’s with His vibration that He teaches us all things.

Let those who need intellectual teachings use their free will and look for more intellectual teachings.

Reply from Charles Fines on October 10, 2008

As to more “advanced” teaching, it is already available for those seeking it. In my view some of it is valid but not intended for everyone, much of it is a distraction and even an escape from the simple truth we find in our daily Heaven Letter. There is teaching that is off the beaten path and there is teaching that is just plain off the path.

Heaven Letters are meant for everyone. At first glance they might seem simplistic and repetitive, Dick and Jane first readers. When I test myself as to how I am actually doing in putting these simple instructions into practice, I understand the wisdom of God repeating the same things over and over and over. His patience with my slow learning is astounding.

Aside from any intellectual content, Heaven Letters are food for the spirit. The act of reading them with an open heart nourishes us and strengthens our soul so that bit by bit we do better and get closer to that Oneness which is the goal. We don’t need exotic gourmet fare for that.

This is not meant to condemn those whose path might take them into lessons we find strange. Perhaps I should say lessons that I find strange. Many conventional religious followers would find Heaven Letters strange and some here might find my own investigations strange.

In the end we all have a different path to follow but Heaven Letters provide a common meeting place where those of good will can participate and grow in the general Great Awakening that is rising up in hearts all over the planet. Simple is good.

Reply from Jochen on October 10, 2008

More advanced
simplicity
too simple
little Dick and Jane
embarrassment
more impressive
simple
basic
real
true
heart
mind
intellekt
complicated
rack one’s brains
understand
revelation
dazzled by love and beauty
open heart
TRUTH
simple language
simplistic
only nice words
profound teaching
small pills
without great pomp
vibration
intellectual

I was trying to understand what this is about. Can we find out together? We seem to like Heavenletters. Maybe we even love Heavenletters. Or we have come to love Heavenletters. Do we prefer Heavenletters? Well, not exactly. Do we compare? That’s the crucual question for me. I have done all comparing in the world over the years, and Heavenletters made me stop comparing. Have I become a fundamentalist?

Advanced, too simple, embarrassment - those are words that compare or imply comparison. What is being compared there? Let’s really name it. Let us simply define “less advanced” and “more dvanced”. Everything will become clear then.

Reply from Charles Fines on October 10, 2008

The undertone of “advanced” learning implies a higher intellectual capacity and is somewhat elitist in nature. By definition, half of humanity has a below average IQ, IQ being the accepted predictor of academic success. If you are paying attention to your surroundings you might have noticed that IQ is not the necessarily the best predictor of life success.

Advanced spiritual learning might delve into questions such as how the material Cosmos was created, whether what we call the Universe is the extent of it all, how angels came about and what their function is, what the difference is between soul and spirit, what life is like on other worlds.

As interesting as this might be to some, none of it is of much help as to how to love a neighbor who is a pain in the behind. Those of low IQ as we measure it seem to have as good a chance of practicing God’s love well as any so called genius.

There are whole libraries of theological treatises and commentaries in many different religious traditions. A lifetime of study does not necessarily lead to what a three year old child can understand: love God and love your neighbor.

Understanding is one thing, doing is another. Fundamentalism in whatever tradition does not seem to fit well with God’s fundamental essence of love. And just exactly what is this love?

I believe that Heaven Letters explain this fundamental concept to us from a different point of view every day, and that looked at from God’s perspective learning about love is the most advanced learning available period.

I personally find it interesting to delve into the nuts and bolts of how things are put together in Creation, but that doesn’t help me much in figuring out how to rise above fear and anger and material desire. For that I turn to Heaven Letters.

They are not the only source of this truly advanced teaching about love but they are the one that I find best suited to my problems of the day in a highly immediate way. I like to think of all the other people all over the world who are in this classroom with me.

Reply from Marko on October 10, 2008

Gloria, let me know when you’ve figured this out about this advanced thing being a judgment rather than say an observation.

An advanced society would not allow it self to display it self as it does presently. We are quite primitive right now, but transitioning to more advancement. An advancing society exist right here in smaller numbers for those who see and desire it.

Simple and advanced can be the same thing. They can also be something else, as well as both.

Your questioning regarding the word advancement is I believe that you do not like the idea of someone being superior or something to that nature. Am I right?
Just asking.

Perhaps the word more evolved sounds better?

We don’t want a person who can only sail a small boat captain a luxury liner do we? If people can advance in math, science, art, music or anything in life,– why can not the same be said of spiritual advancement and spiritual evolution?

Isn’t that the nature of life to evolve and advance? Just asking. Or, am I missing something here???

Great discussion everyone.

Reply from Jo on October 10, 2008

I didn’t read the post on the forum you refer to Gloria, but I’m wondering if the writer explained what he/she meant by “Advanced”. “Advanced” seems to be a very loaded term (it is definitely a judgment word in my lexicon) and not very specific as an adjective for Heavenletters. Maybe someone needs to ask the author of the comment to expand on what was meant by “advanced”. It could very well be that something quite innocent was intended. Understanding the intent might help you figure it out. Whatever you discover, this entry certainly has inspired lots of great discussion!
Love to All

Reply from Emilia on October 10, 2008

“In simplicity you are childlike, in further simplicity you are Godlike”.
Simpler is not easier, joining simplicity is the most refined advancement.
Emilia

Reply from Jochen on October 10, 2008

To be honest, Marko, yes, I do hear a note of superiority, especially when it appears to be about leadership, about who is going to be captain of this luxury liner. That’s why I suggest to be very clear about the meaning of “more advanced” or “more evolved”. Does it have to do with “more refined”, “more sophisticated”, “grown up”, “more spiritually mature”? Even if we say that “advanced” or “more evolved” is not a judgement but simply an obervation, how can we be sure we know enough about evolution to say “more” or “less”? Let us consider this:

Your Evolution
Heavenletter # 958 Published on: June 6, 2003
God said:
Become not impatient with your evolution. Look at it as a good friend who just can’t run as fast you would like him to. Your evolution paces itself just right. It goes not too slow nor too fast. Just right. You perhaps want to go past some of the stopping places on the way, but your friend evolution knows it is wise to stop and take in the scenery for a while.

It is not that you have to pay dues for your growth, it’s not that. Your evolution is not imperfect; it knows it has to settle in. Your evolution will not miss a beat. You are going very fast right now, but, of course, that does not seem fast enough to you, for you are always in a hurry.

Rather than thinking impatiently about your evolution, perhaps think about enjoying life as it is, as it comes to you. Perhaps enjoy yourself as you are right now in whatever place you find yourself.

It is not only the waterfalls that signal your evolution. The gullies and mesas do too…..

Reply from Gloria on October 10, 2008

You guys are brilliant.

Reply from Marko on October 10, 2008

Jochen, Heavenletter # 958 reference was a great response to the inquiry here. Thank you!

I have no problem admitting my sorrow at the primitive ways of our society even as I clap my hands in celebration of a dawn of a new world breaking through the side walk cracks of humanity.

Both are here right now and I believe that the advancing evolving world will be flowering as long as we nurture it, ourselves and others, and not let it die out. Time and our willingness to evolve (notice love is spelled backwards in evolve) will tell if this actually comes to fruition.

I’d only hope that I add energy to this growth and not its detriment. That way, I become a positive influence in and of that new world. Which is this world being transformed.

I don’t take myself to seriously here, even on this dialog with evolving and advancement, I don’t get too attached to my own theories on life.

I’m a little less likely to let go of certain things that make and cause me to feel good and enthusiastic, unless it’s for something even more w-onederful.

I pray I have the wisdom to see that more w-onederfulness when it comes.

Blessings and Appreciations to all.

Reply from Karen on October 10, 2008

Dear Gloria,

As you know, I have been Godwriting when spirit moves me. After reading your latest Godwriting Blog, I thought I would ask God about this. As expected,
God has a ONEderful answer.

_______________________________________________________

——————————————————–

Dear God,
Will you speak of “more advanced Heavenletters”?

Beloved Karen of My Heart,
The writer of this request is searching for answers specific to his own questions. He only has to ask Me directly to receive the guidance he seeks. Yet all Heavenletters are advanced. They advance My love into your heart. Do We not advance to the “heart of the matter” that speaks to your heart each day? Do We not advance to the “head of the class” in each day’s mindful experience? We are advancing you and I. We are advancing together in Our One Heart of Love towards the Heaven of Our dreams coming true.

Go in peace My Beloved Darling Daughter.

Reply from Marko on October 10, 2008

Pretty cool Karen!!!

Now, if we only knew who this person was, that’s being talked about?

I wonder if he or she will ever speak uP? :+)

Reply from Gloria on October 10, 2008

Beloved Marko, it doesn’t matter who this person was.

He must have been an instrument of God Who wanted us to have this discussion.

With everyone’s comments, I’m a lot clearer on this subject.

For all we know, maybe this discussion even did something for the world.

That’s just it — we don’t know!

Reply from paula on October 11, 2008

God says somewhere that it’s not a question of being more advanced or superior, it’s about remembering. The Masters, for example, are not superior to us, they just remember more than we do, and they help us remember.

Reply from Jack van Raders on October 11, 2008

Yes Gloria, I must agree with you again. We are BRILLiANT
you know why? we are all children of GOD. Love you ALL Jack

Reply from Gloria on October 11, 2008

And more, Jack. And more.

Paula, remembering! I forgot all about remembering! That’s what we’re doing. That makes it so beautiful and simple. All we’re doing is remembering.

Sometimes God does give me short answers. Here’s one to what we’ve been addressing here:

God said:

I do not change. I do not become more advanced. I AM as I AM.

Reply from Marko on October 11, 2008

“I do not change. I do not become more advanced. I AM as I AM.”

But you do remember, grow, thus, you become more aware, to me, that’s what advanced is. Being more aware.

Reply from Gloria on October 11, 2008

Yes, dear one, we advance. All of us advance,and yet we are all in the same class. I don’t think God separates us out.

God does not become more advanced. To what would God advance?

Reply from Jack van Raders on October 12, 2008

Spare us, If God became more advanced he would become human. and we have enough of them here. Gloria Dear Please keep doing what you and God do so absolutely wonderful Love Jack

Reply from Marko on October 12, 2008

Continuing this delightful discussion on advancing.

A more advanced spiritual person does not need as much sleep as others. They are in a sense more awake and need less down time to sleep and rest. Mary Baker Eddy said “God rest in action” I like to think that was said to mean that we can rest in action too.

It is foolish to advance to forward beyond our understanding, we most likely will pay the price. Just see how long you can go without eating or sleeping and you will find out real quick the limits we are still bound to.

That said one can still be advanced (meaning more aware) and need lots of sleep. Life is full of exceptions, contradictions, paradoxes and unknowns.

Now some Yogis need very little sleep because when they do sleep they go directly to the REM sleep or rapid eye stage. Doing so, they by pass all the levels of more superficial sleep we go through to get to the potent delicious REM state. So, because they get there so quickly an hour or two is equivalent quality wise to a full nights sleep.

Still, sleep is quite delightful isn’t it? Not insomnia, but natural tiredness that relaxes you in a wonderful dreamy way.

So I’d say that as we advance in our awareness we will not need to sleep as much and eventually not at all.

In the mean time of course, we do what’s necessary for health, peace and fun activity while blessing and praising and appreciating what ever life presents and displays to us.

Reply from Gloria on October 12, 2008

Dear Marko, as you say, how do we know, or anyone know, that more “advanced” spiritual people do not need as much sleep as others? Quite rightly, which one of us can tell who is more spiritually “advanced” and who is not from any world standard. Appearances are only appearances.

Are not young children more advanced than all of us — or, at least, most of us.

God in Heavenletters certainly repeats that it is our hearts that grow.

Awareness isn’t the same as knowledge.

Beloved Marko, I don’t know why I seem to have to take another side from yours — especially when we are are on the same side of wanting good for all.

Reply from Marko on October 12, 2008

Hi Gloria, as I said before I try not to take my own ideas of life too seriously.

I do like to play with them and that’s what we are doing here I feel. The reed that does not bend will break in the wind.

So being flexible even as we continue to explore this concept to me is healthy.

So I’m not too attached to even my own ideas about things as new information and new inspiration and new revelation will continue to change how I look at life in a larger more loving and expanded way.

I’m just exploring, experimenting here with this concept. You, I and all of us want to be inclusive of course.

A child learning to add and subtract will not understand advanced calculus. Yet the simple foundation of math are the building blocks a child needs if they desire to advance in mathematics.

A child is not ready for advance mathematics, they learn and grow into it. Yet without teachers to pass on this advanced knowledge how would they learn and advance?

It seems that we can advance in all kinds of things in life but when we advance spiritually or advance in our understanding in life itself, we don’t want to acknowledge that?

It seems if we are in an awakening process that at some point we will not need to rest or sleep? Does that not seem like a logical step?

Why would life always require sleep, or even food or etc?

Unless we are willing to explore these ideas, we could remain like primitive tribes unchanged for 1000’s of years. That is not a bad thing, that is just not a very progressive thing.

We advance technologically so much, does it not stand to reason we should spiritually?

Is not that even more important?

Are we so ego driven that we will not dare say or acknowldge an advanced master when we see one?

Must it always be in a form of a Jesus or Buddha only?

I know a few masters, they are human. I’m not one of them.

But you know what? I do not need to press this concept any further if it is an area of even modest contention with you and others.

There may be better times to revisit this, or other places for me to explore it. I have a keen interest in us spiritually advancing. Yet not so keen that it’s purpose here may become non beneficial at some point.

Sometimes you just have to let things rest and move on. We let these things peculate, distill and grow within.

Who knows another HL another person may sum this uP in one perfect paragraph.

I think since I started this debate of sorts I’ll end it now in hopes of not beating this thing to the point of ill benefit, or ill will, even on a minor level.

I don’t think that has happened yet,I don’t want it to, so, I’ll put this tape on pause.

We can always take it uP again. As much as I’d like to continue it, it feels better now to drop it (at least for now, and maybe even longer)

I think that a HL or some blog may come into play in the future that will be of much benefit around this and we can allow and envision that happening, without attachment.

Blessing and Appreciations, Love and good will.

Reply from Jochen on October 13, 2008

Dear Marko, I cannot detect any contention here, not even modest contention. Ideas are expressed, ideas get discussed, there are no boats that must not be rocked. As far as I am concernd, ending this discussion is fine and continuing it is fine. Since I was out of town for two days, I would like to add one more thing.

I don’t think this is about learning to add and subtract to become able to understand advanced calculus. I don’t think this is about building up at all. We will not find anything new, we will simply remember WHAT IS and always was. In this sense, the more regressive we become, the more advanced we will be.

Reply from Jochen on October 13, 2008

Oops, I wanted to end by quoting T.S. Eliot, but while trying to enlarge this box, apparently I hit “Submit Comment”. Could we move one of the two, either “Submit Comment” or the enlargement corner?

Reply from Marko on October 13, 2008

Thanks Jochen for your thoughts.
I’m very careful how I word things.

Regarding contention. Remember that I said that
“I don’t think that has happened yet,I don’t want it to, so, I’ll put this tape on pause.”

That was base purely on my own feelings and no one elses.

Reply from One on October 19, 2008

When a fruit is ripe, it can be eaten right? When it’s unripe it can also be eaten. Which is more, which is smaller, which has greater value? Unripe or ripe?

While driving today I was thinking about levels of awareness and raising one’s consciousness as referred to in various yoga practices. The term “levels of awareness” can be compared to a building. It has 7 floors. From each floor you get a different view. On the 7th floor, one is able to see further. One who has reached the 7th floor can move to all levels of the building, with the awareness of what is seen from the 7th floor.

All levels are within the same building.

There is outside and there is inside. From inside there is no duality. From outside there is. Seeing from within, everything is one.

The postings on this blog often send me on the express elevator to the 7th floor! I’m still laughing at Jack’s first post about the unspeakable God!

Oceans of Love

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