Post Discussion

Reply from Marko on October 15, 2008

“Nice things seem to be happening faster and faster. Maybe I’m trying to say the connections are more visible.”

That sounds like someone who’s really starting to get it, where theory and practice are not so far apart but are closer together.

“From now on, I am going to make a point to send extra love to those who don’t seem to say thank you. Let me thank them for being.”

I work and play at practicing this very thing. It’s an advanced state of being in that we are coming less from negative reaction, to conscious loving that which others call bad. It’s not always easy, until it is.

It may seem simple and it is. Yet, how many on this planet would even take the time to consider such conscious action?

In fact, it’s the so called negatives that really need most, our loving response and energy.

The good stuff too, maybe less so, but even then, we can bless and expand even that with more love, blessings and appreciations.

Thus the good grows, enlarges and expands more joy into our daily experiences.

Reply from Gloria on October 16, 2008

Beloved Marko, it’s a question of perception, isn’t it? We act on what we perceive.

Okay, dear one, I have to say: There is no advanced state of Being. Being is Being. I do have a lot of trouble with that word advanced.

Let me also say I appreciate that you post what you feel. I wish everyone would post!

I agree with you on almost everything, dear Marko.

We’re all learning, that’s for sure.

Reply from Marko on October 16, 2008

Beloved Gloria, you seem to have a charge on the word advanced in a way I don’t. We can advance or be advanced in math or science, music or a master of fine arts, and that’s ok, but not as a spiritual master or teacher? I don’t mean to make you uncomfortable, I think you know that.

It’s ok to agree to disagree here is it not? I do sense your uncomfortableness with this term where I am not. I think at some point it will or should resolve itself.

How and when is not yet known. I would feel very censored if I couldn’t post the way I do.

I’m now more self conscious as a result of our dialog and don’t desire to cause uPset on your part.

Yet, I don’t want to censor myself either. I don’t have any resolvable answer yet but let’s just keep playing with it for awhile and see where it goes.

This too can evolve. Is that not advancing too? We went from walking on all fours to bipedal beings is that not evolution and is not evolution advancing from where we previously were?

In any case I have no need to make an issue of this. I’m sure God can answer you as well.

I could use the term greater awareness or something of that sort, but would feel I’m doing so, only not to step on your toes. Which I’m not trying to do, and I get that you know that too.

What is it that you want me to do regarding this if anything?

Peace, Love, Blessings and Appreciation.

Reply from Jochen on October 16, 2008

Dear Marko, my personal view on “advanced” is that it is a comparative term implying assessment of things as more valuable and less valuable and usually coming with implicit or explicit agendas and action plans to further that which is defined as more advanced. “Evolution” has just a little less of this connotation of rating things and therefore is less likely to sound judgmental. Advancement can become a mission (and thus can go terribly wrong as many well-intentioned missions have), whereas evolution cannot. Very broadly: Advancement is done, evolution happens.

A quotation again, this time from
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Your Evolution Does Not Depend on Advice
Heavenletter # 2214 Published on: December 16, 2006

You can leap forward in your evolution. But you don’t have to push yourself to move forward. Do you see the difference, beloveds? Consider that your evolution sneaks up on you. It likes to take you by surprise. It likes to tease you, run in your life, go to a corner and then jump out at you.

Evolution is effortless, beloveds. It is not by control that you enter Heaven. It is not by restriction that you enter Heaven. Is not control restriction? You don’t have to be better than you are. You don’t have to be better than someone else nor wiser nor taller nor handsomer than you are. You just have to be what you are.

No one can tell you what you are. They can tell you until they are blue in the face, but your evolution is not a question of advice. Your evolution is not a sequence that you can map out. It is not a school of study. Your evolution takes its own course.
————————————–
Anyway, Marko, I’m quite sure that objections to a concept like “advanced” will never mean that anyone wants to silence or censor you. Some of us are not comfortable with this concept, that’s all. I am not comfortable with it. For me, it has a ring of being in the know where not much can be actually known. And when knowledge is claimed where not much knowledge is actually possible, we are not very far from the prescriptive thinking of what might be called “spiritual technocracy”. Of course, I don’t say that that’s where you are. But it’s what words like “advanced” conjure up for me.

Reply from Gloria on October 16, 2008

The postings here just leave me in awe. So real, heartfelt, and giving.

I am drawn into responding when that is really not my place here. Read yes. Enjoy yes.

Beloved Marko, if what I posted had been someone else’s comment, you might well have responded differently. It is I who needs to say less in response. I sure have my turn here with the original entry!

With love and blessings to all,

Gloria

Reply from Marko on October 16, 2008

I guess I don’t get it. I feel you’re all ok with teachers and master craftsmen or someone who has a black belt etc and when it comes to spiritual stuff it’s not ok? I don’t hear an answer to this question.

Sorry I’ll admit it, I don’t get it.

Gloria if someone else responded I’d still post the same. Why would it be any different with you?

The only difference is, this is your blog, your site. You have the right to set the agenda in a way that I don’t. Even so, I’m here to bring people uP not down.

To challenge things in a friendly way is fine, to disagree is fine. Neither you or Jochen are convincing me to move my position, I don’t see strong evidence to do so. I believe you feel the same with me. So it’s a bit of a draw. Nothing wrong with that.
Just a difference of opinion.

If it was to become more of an issue at a later date, we will deal with it then. For now it seems a draw.

Reply from Jo on October 16, 2008

I think we might be discussing apples and oranges here. In Gloria’s statement,”There is no advanced state of being. Being is being.” I hear that we are all One. No one’s way of being is superior or better than anyone else’s way of being. In Marko’s statement, “It’s an advanced state of being in that we are coming less from negative reaction, to conscious loving…” I hear that choosing love over negative reactionism is a sign of forward progress on one’s path. The term “Advanced” be used as a judgment meaning superior, and it can also be used to indicate forward movement as in evolving. This discussion gets right to the heart of Gloria’s post in that we can really never know another’s intent or interior landscape at any given time. It is all a matter of our individual perspectives - how we perceive, Gloria. Our own intentions are all that matter and the only intentions that we have to work on. It does not matter if someone at the grocery store barges past with no notice as you courteously move out of the way (this very thing happened this afternoon at the grocery store and I have to confess that my ego was piqued at first - then I smiled because I recognized what was going on). How open your heart is, is what matters. Seeing with love is the only way to see when all is said and done. It seems to me that everyone here is doing a fine job of that very thing.

Reply from Jochen on October 16, 2008

Marko, dear one, please don’t take any of this personally. There is nothing you have to get and there is no position anyone wants you to move. Everything you said is appreciated very much. It’s only that God in Heavenletters keeps repeating that NOTHING HAS TO BE DONE and some or many of us happen to resonate strongly with these words - to the point where we sometimes suspect that the “doing paradigm” could be more harmful or counterproductive than truly helpful. That’s all there is to this discussion. Nothing serious. No draw. Yes, difference of opinion. And for me a valuable difference, yielding much clarification.

Reply from Marko on October 16, 2008

Jochen thank you for your loving thoughts.

Nothing has to be done. Well that is still doing something. Everything as far as I know has a consequence to it. What consequences are we creating and desiring?

There is a consequence if we do nothing, and if we do something. Even to infuse our best energies with Light, Love, Blessings, Appreciation etc. that does not immediately solve all the problems we face in the world. It does help move things to a better energy direction and that can lead to other positive and beneficial things.

Things will go on and happen with or without our help support energy love etc.

Yet why not be the positive change influence to make things better?

If we do nothing, we allow the collective influence to take over our choices and thus in a sense lose our individual voice of free choice and allow the collective to make it for us.

We are too primitive a species in my view to allow that to happen with any lasting positive results at this time.

Of course we don’t have to do anything. But even that has a cost and consequence be it good, bad or other depending.

Our environment is one example that if we do nothing it will be inhabitable at some point in the future if we continue the course we are on in the world.

But you are correct, it is a difference of opinion, perspective and outlook.

I agree too that this dialog allows for even more clarification.

Reply from Jochen on October 17, 2008

Wonderful, Marko. I’m happy that this little misunderstanding is out of the way now. And I’m looking forward to more of your stimulating thoughts. I’m well aware that some of the opinions that are voiced here can sound rather strange at first, but you will probably read more Heavenletters over the next weeks and months and find out that the seeming strangeness comes from there.

Logically, doing nothing is still doing something, true. But in terms of intention it is not the same. This paradox is as old as the “Tao Te Ching” where Lao-tzu says, “Doing nothing, nothing remains not done.” There is a doing that comes out of calculations (which come out of fear) and therefore is, by and large, the activity of ego. And there is a doing that comes out of what in Heavenletters is called “innocence” and is the spontaneous, loving activity of what is variously termed Higher Self or Oneness or God. All my doings are a mixture of calculation and innocence and I simply hope the scale will tip toward love, innocence and spontaneity more and more. How? By not doing. By simply “leaning toward” it as Heavenletters express it so beautifully. The impulse to DO will likely remain strong for quite a while yet. It’s the impulse we were brought up to have. There is nothing wrong with it but it doesn’t seem to effect deep and lasting changes. Remember who you are and everything else will follow — no more war, no more rape of Mother Earth etc. That’s what I hear when I read Heavenletters. Yes, the question of responsibility receives an answer here that is quite different from what we are used to hear. But even the “old-style” responsibility comes out or caring, of course, and therefore is wonderful. Everything Marko says comes out of deep caring and cannot be anything but wonderful. I think we can afford to take it very easy here.

Reply from Marko on October 17, 2008

Thanks precious Jochen for your time and energy on this.

When we are coming from a beingness and feeling of Inner Peace, Light, Love, Compassion, Appreciation, Blessing etc. we naturally will “do” as a result of that beingness.

To “be” first, and as a natural consequence of inspiration of that enthusiastic energy, we will do and act from this space of awareness.

Reply from Jochen on October 17, 2008

A hug for you, Marko.